Dinner & a Séance Part 1

The room goes still, the metronome ticks, and Mary begins a slow descent down an imagined staircase that somehow leads straight into the private histories of everyone at the table. What follows isn’t vagueness or guesswork; it’s a sequence of precise hits that force even hardened skeptics to rethink their positions. 

We talk openly about fear, faith, and what evidence looks like when it wears the clothes of memory. Reverend Dill doesn’t chase spectacle; he builds a test where witnesses can verify facts and weigh the ethics of what comes next. When a message challenges the town editor to write with more compassion—cry for the living, not the dead—the paranormal becomes practical, turning belief into behavior. 

To widen the investigation, we step outside under a Carolina sky for an eyewitness account of the Ahoskie lights. The description mirrors Brown Mountain reports, adding one more consistent data point to a phenomenon that refuses to be dismissed. If you’re drawn to haunted history, spirit communication, seances, and spook lights, you’ll find both chills and substance here—testable claims, credible voices, and a community that values curiosity over fear. Here is an extended segment about the Brown Mountain Lights: 

https://www.patreon.com/posts/brown-mountain-145115177?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

Subscribe so you don’t miss the conclusion of the seance and our conversation with Chicago paranormal researcher Neil Gibbons. If this story moved you, share it with a friend and leave a review with the one detail that surprised you most. Your stories keep this circle strong.

Chapters

• 0:11 Welcome And Season Roadmap
• 2:01 Experiments After The Roth Parlor
• 3:10 Skeptics, Believers, And Town Gossip
• 4:02 Dinner Guests Gather For A Seance
• 5:27 Rules, Prayer, And The Descent
• 8:45 Lizabetha Identified And Forgiven
• 11:47 The Red Box And The Hidden Pipes
• 14:30 The Cane, The Names, And Silence
• 26:44 Tease: Cliffhanger And Upcoming Guest
• 27:39 Porchlight Whispers: Ahoskie Lights
• 31:56 Vann’s Encounter And Reflection
• 33:13 Patreon Extras And Listener Call

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Small Town Whispers, where history, folklore, and the paranormal collide. I'm Bethany Yucuis Borden, and I lived in Watseka, Illinois from 1988 to 1999. For over a decade, I walked the same streets, saw the same houses, and even had friends connected to the story we're about to dive into. This isn't just history for me, it's personal. The final episode of Part 1 will arrive the day after Christmas, and then we're taking a short holiday break before part two begins on Friday, January 16th. Part 3 will carry us all the way to May 22nd. I'm excited for every twist and turn ahead, and I hope you're right here with me. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode, especially because today's excerpt ends on a cliffhanger. Now, let's step back into the story. After the astonishing results of the first experiment in the Roff Parlor, Mary and Reverend Dille continued their experiments for several weeks. In one test, Mary stayed home while the Reverend walked into town and wrote a number on a brick wall. When he returned, Mary said the number was 88. And she was right. He would hand her books she had never seen from his own library and ask her for the first word on a particular page. Time after time, Mary named it correctly. Reverend Dille insisted he did not want Mary to become possessed again, but he also admitted he hoped he would be present if it happened. He began subscribing to spiritualist newspapers from the East Coast, the Spiritual Telegraph from New York, The Banner of Light from Boston, and The Spiritual Messenger from Springfield, Massachusetts. These publications kept him informed of seances and unexplained happenings all across the country. Some of the issues of these magazines and newspapers still survive online today. Not everyone in Watseka approved. Lavinia Durst, whose scratchy voice and sharper opinions had already driven her husband out of town, was certain Reverend Dill was dabbling in the devil's work. With her children grown and gone, she lived alone on Hickory Street with nothing but time. And she spent most of it monitoring other people's business. Asa did not fully understand or appreciate the experiments. But Mary seemed happier, and she was unquestionably growing stronger. Meanwhile, others in town were intrigued. Mayor Conrad Secrest, for example, had experienced something he could never explain. A moment in Chicago when he saw his mother-in-law's face reflected in a window, only to learn she had died minutes before he saw her. That memory left him open-minded, and he felt a genuine responsibility to know what was happening in his community. Now we return to the book Watseka, America's Most Extraordinary Case of Possession and Exorcism, on page 69, where Mary Roff and Reverend Dille have invited a carefully chosen group of guests to join them for dinner and a seance. Mary had agreed to do more than just guess what was in sealed envelopes this evening. In attendance are Asa, Anne, Nervie, and Mary Roff, Mr. Hogle, a dry goods store owner, Mr. A. G. Smith, the editor of the Iroquois County Republican, Mr. Lyle Marsh, a hardware store owner, and Mayor Secrest and his wife Martha. She was the only one of the wives who had not excused herself for various reasons. The Reverend Dille showed the guests where to sit. Mary sat at the twelve o'clock position of the circle, going clockwise. Next to her was Mr. Smith, Mr. Marsh, Mrs. Secrest, and Mr. Hogle. Asa was at the six o'clock spot across from Mary. Continuing clockwise, next to him was Anne, the Mayor, Nervie, and finally Reverend Dille, directly next to Mary on her other side. Loozie was not allowed to attend the seance. She tried, but at some point she knew her place, and retreated to the kitchen, closing the door behind her. I was hoping Loozie could stay. That would be out of the question, dear, Asa replied. If we were only family, Anne added. But my dear, we do have guests. I understand. Mary lowered her eyes. But it would be nice to have Loozie here. Maybe next time, the minister said. She can sit in on it next time. He smiled at Mary, and then at everyone in the circle. He voiced his thoughts. I am searching for religious truths, he said, trying through Miss Roff to understand the nature of the spirit, attempting to make contact with a departed soul in order for that soul to describe where he is and what heaven looks like. I believe that once we understand what happens to our souls when they leave our bodies, we will have a better understanding of not only where we will go after death, but a better understanding of why we are here in life. Aren't these matters better left alone? asked Mr. Marsh. That's the problem, sir. They have been left alone for far too long, and they have created fear and confusion among the living. Even among the most faithful of the church, there is fear of dying. I have ministered to many devout Christians on their deathbeds, who have been terrified to leave this mortal shell and enter into the world of spirit. I believe, sir, that it is time for progressive men to examine what is on the other side of this veil of tears, and to traverse it and permit light and understanding to come to us. There was a general murmuring of agreement and nodding of heads. My own sister, said Mrs. Secrest, went to church every Sunday and read the Bible each evening. Yet when she died, God rest her soul, she cried and clung to life. That pitiful scene has stamped on my mind forever. The minister was delighted. Exactly what I'm trying to dispel, that fear of the unknown. That fear of God rather than the unquestioning love of God that we should all have. Maybe there are some things that God does not wish us to know, put in Mr. Hogle. Then where are your investigations? If God does not wish us to know certain things, then we shall not know them. It's quite simple. Should he not wish my experiments to succeed, he would make them fail. I bow to the will of God. Again, general agreement. But he has not made my experiments fail. Just the opposite. Almost every experiment with Miss Roff has been completed with great satisfaction. He looked at each face in the dimly lit circle. Does that not indicate to you what God wills in this case? The Reverend reached under his chair and pulled out an odd shaped wooden box. I have here a metronome, an ordinary metronome that we who play the piano are quite familiar with. I am going to release the spring and set the arm into motion. As it counts time, Miss Roff will begin to relax. He released the metal arm and it swung and created an audible. Then it swung in the opposite direction, and back it went. Forward, back, tick, tick, tick. Anne coughed, and the mayor's wife looked at her husband across the circle and he smiled at her. Before we begin, there are several rules that must be observed, said the Reverend Dille. First is silence. Until I give you permission, there must be no talking of any kind. Do you all agree? They all did. Second, when the time comes that you are permitted to ask questions, please make the questions simple and direct. The more complicated the question, the more difficult it will be to get a correct answer. What kind of questions? The newspaper editor wanted to know. You shall see when the time comes, sir. Now I want you all to get comfortable in your chairs and put your feet flat on the floor. There was a rustling of satins and taffeta as the ladies arranged themselves. Mr. Hogle had been sitting with his legs crossed, and his shoe made a sound as it hit the chair leg and settled firmly on the floor. Now I want you to hold hands. Take the hand of the person next to you. Mr. Marsh, you'll have to uncross your arms, sir, and take Mr. Smith's hand and Mrs. Secrest's hand. He inspected his circle. They had done as he asked. At his feet the metronome went. Again they did as they were asked. Our Heavenly Father, be with us at this time, and grant us the right to know you better and to better understand your mysterious workings. I especially ask you to protect us this evening and not to permit anything contrary to your divine judgment to enter into this circle. We ask that Mary Roff be protected and blessed at all times, that she be guided into your divine paths by your divine hand. Amen. Amen, the others repeated. You may open your eyes now. They did. Now Mary, I want you to close your eyes and listen to the ticking of the metronome. As you listen, I want you to imagine that you're descending a long staircase with each tick of the metronome. Do you understand? She nodded her head. There was silence. Do you see the staircase? No, not yet. We shall wait. Tell me when you see it. All eyes were on Mary's face, which was partially concealed by shadows. Anne squeezed her husband's hand, and he returned the pressure. Do you see the staircase, Mary? I think I do. Don't force it.

Speaker 2: 11:54

It will come naturally. I see the staircase clearly now. It's made of dark wood and has a red carpet running down the center of the steps. It's a long way down there. Can you see the bottom step? No.

Speaker 1: 12:11

Are you afraid to go down those stairs?

Speaker 2: 12:14

No.

Speaker 1: 12:15

Mary, as I count down the steps, and there are twenty one of them in front of you, I want you to listen to the metronome and see yourself descending the stairs. See your body actually going down each step as I count down. Do you understand? Yes. Are you ready? She nodded, and he looked at the others in the circle. All eyes were on Mary's darkened face. Alright, Mary, let's start down the steps. You are on the top step, the twenty first step. Now see yourself going down to twenty, now down to nineteen, eighteen, seventeen, sixteen, fifteen, fourteen, thirteen, twelve, eleven, ten. She sighed. Are you all right? Yes. Down to nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. You are now at the bottom of the stairs. Am I correct? Yes. Do you see a large chair, Mary? She shut her eyelids tighter and tilted her head to one side as if she was looking around. She nodded. No, Mary, I want you to sit in that chair and wait. You will wait until someone comes out of the door in front of you and speaks to you. Do you understand?

Speaker 2: 13:47

Yes.

Speaker 1: 13:48

Are you in the chair?

Speaker 2: 13:50

Yes.

Speaker 1: 13:51

Now wait until the door in front of you opens, and a person comes through that door and walks over to you. Do you understand? Yes. Asa wanted to loosen his collar. It seemed to be too tight, but his hands were being held by Anne on his left side and Mike Hogle on his right. Anne had nearly stopped breathing as she strained to see her daughter's face across the dimly lit circle. She glanced at Nervy, but Nervy didn't notice. She was staring intently into her younger sister's face, staring and praying that everything would go the way it was supposed to. Where are you now, Mary? The minister asked softly. Still in the the chair. Has the door opened? She shook her head. Can you see the door? She nodded. Then let's just wait a little longer. Someone will come through the door. This method had been used successfully in New York and Boston, and had been reported in the Spiritual Telegraph. Yes. The door is opening. I see someone. Who? He reached down, breaking the circle for an instant, and stopped the ticking metronome.

Speaker 2: 14:59

A lady. It's a lady, and she's wearing a long black dressing gown. Does she frighten you? No. She is a nice lady. She's smiling at me. Anne squeezed Asa's hand in relief.

Speaker 1: 15:13

Will you describe her more fully?

Speaker 2: 15:15

She is about oh sixty years old, I would say. And she wears a lace cap on her head. She's holding out one hand and pointing to it with the other. Why?

Speaker 1: 15:26

I don't know. Is she trying to call attention to something she is wearing on that hand? The minister asked. Mary pushed her face forward a little as if trying to get close to the hand.

Speaker 2: 15:37

Oh, the poor thing. She doesn't have a little finger. There were only three fingers and a thumb on that hand. My God, said Mr.

Speaker 1: 15:46

Marsh. The Reverend Dille glared at him. Shh, but I think I know that woman, Mr. Marsh insisted. My first wife was missing the little finger on her left hand. Is this woman Mr. Marsh's first wife, Mary? Ask her. Mary sat silent for a few seconds.

Speaker 2: 16:02

She says her name is Lizabetha. She says you spell it with an L instead of an E, and you put an A on the end of it.

Speaker 1: 16:09

Oh my God, Mr. Marsh began to perspire. That was the way my first wife spelled her name. She thought it was more elegant than plain Elizabeth.

Speaker 2: 16:17

Yes. And she says you had two marriage licenses at home because she made you go back and get another one with her name spelled correctly on it.

Speaker 1: 16:26

That's true, Mr. Marsh said excitedly. The clerk spelled it the normal way, and neither of us noticed it until we got home. She made me go back and get another one with the correct spelling. She said she didn't consider herself married until her name was correct on the license. His eyes filled with water, but he was smiling. We used to laugh about that afterward. Yes, that must be Lizabetha. Do you have anything you want to ask her? The minister was looking at him. A thousand things, I suppose, he stammered. But I can't think of one of them right now. I really wasn't he glanced at the others. Wasn't prepared for anything like this. Nor were any of the rest of us, said Mrs. Secrest. Yes, I do have a question for her. May I ask it? The Reverend Dille nodded. Lizabetha, were you in much pain at the last? Did the medicines and the poultices take away some of the pain? His eyes were intent on Mary's face. I tried my best, you know.

Speaker 2: 17:27

She says that there was no pain towards the end. Pain was in the fact that you seemed to want her to die.

Speaker 1: 17:35

I never, Mr. Marsh almost shouted. I loved my wife.

Speaker 2: 17:40

She says that you felt you had spent enough time with a woman who was always ill and whose doctor bills never ceased. And she said you were already met the present Mrs. Marsh before she died, and were planning to wed her as soon as the proper time had elapsed after the funeral.

Speaker 1: 17:58

Reverend Dille, Asa's voice was heard. I don't think it quite proper that my daughter that is not your daughter, sir. That information is coming from the first Mrs. Marsh. But still my daughter is saying those things, and I find it improper conduct toward a guest in my home. Mr. Marsh looked at Asa. Please, he said, Mary is only repeating what Lizabetha is telling her. We asked her to do just that, if you recall. And it is true. Quite true that I wished for her passing. The surgeons who removed her little finger thought they had removed all the disease with it, but it continued inside her body for several years afterward. It's all perfectly true. Including the part about my wanting to marry Lillian while she was still alive. The others sat in stunned silence. I'm a grown man, and I take full responsibility for my actions and deeds. Don't berate your daughter for telling the truth.

Speaker 2: 18:53

She is going now. She said that she understands and forgives you. She says that where she is, all things are understood, and most things are forgiven. She was a lovely lady, Mr. Marsh.

Speaker 1: 19:06

Yes, Mary. She was. He broke the circle of clasped hands long enough to take out his pocket handkerchief and blow his nose. She was lovely and pleasurable to be with. The disease destroyed her. He put the handkerchief into his pocket and joined hands with the editor and the mayor's wife. Now what do you see, Mary? The minister's voice was gentle.

Speaker 2: 19:29

There's someone else trying to come through the door. A young man with a small baby in his arms. How strange. I wonder why a man would hold a baby. Why don't you ask him? She nodded and was silent for almost a minute. He says this baby is his little brother. He says that he went into the spirit world just after this baby was born, and that he has been taking care of it. He says his name is Ray, and the baby's name is Ronald?

Speaker 1: 20:01

Mr. Smith, the editor of the town newspaper, said in a calm, even voice, I don't know how you got that bit of information. There is no one in town who knows that. Knows what? The minister asked. That I had a brother named Ray who was struck by lightning when he was 16 years old. Three weeks after his death, my baby brother Ronald died of diphtheria. It was a sad time for my family. Two funerals in one month. Who told you about this, Mr. Dill? Told me? Sir, nobody has told me anything. But there's no way Mary could have guessed that about my family. That happened years ago in Pennsylvania. She couldn't have guessed it. She is not guessing, Mr. Smith, the minister said. She is being told the information.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Mr. Smith, your brother Ray wants to prove that he is really here. Will you permit him? Prove? Yes. Let him or you prove it to me. He is pointing to a flat wooden box. It has been painted bright red, but the outside lid has the letters A and R on it in white. He opens the box and there are two pipes. Smoking pipes. Now he closes the box and places it where it is hidden by straw and earth. It is cold there, but he says that the cold will not harm the pipes.

Speaker 1: 21:24

The editor was silent for several seconds. That is incredible, he said, choosing his words carefully. My brother and I had such a box, and it was painted red. The letters stood for my name, Adam, and R for his, Ray. We stole those pipes from a tobacconist one time when we were visiting Philadelphia. They were expensive pipes, and nobody in the family ever knew about them except Ray and myself. We would sneak off to the woods near our farm and smoke where no one would see us, especially my father. We kept the box hidden in a wood chuck hole that we covered over with weeds and dirt. His voice broke. Ray? I'm sorry I doubted you. You were my favorite brother. I really missed you when you died. He fought to hold back the tears.

Speaker 2: 22:14

He's telling me to tell you not to grieve for him, and that he is happy where he is, and he is learning every day, and enjoys taking care of little Ronald. He says he sees little Bon- Bonnie. I can't make out the word.

Speaker 1: 22:30

Now the tears welled up and over the rims of the editor's eyes. That's little Boniface. Our mutt dog we named after a Pope Boniface I read about in a book. Even though we were not Catholics, my mother was shocked that I would use a holy name for a dog. We were not allowed to call him Boniface. It was always Bonnie. I'm sorry. I can't seem to control my voice. He let the tears run down his cheeks. Mr. Smith, the minister said, There is no reason to hide or be ashamed of true emotions for others. I cried at Ray's funeral. We had been so close.

Speaker 2: 23:12

But now he is happy. There is no need for tears. He tells me to tell you to cry for the living and to be more considerate of the feelings for the living, for they need compassion more than the dead do.

Speaker 1: 23:24

Does he mean the way I will sometimes report a news item? The way I write about someone in the paper?

Speaker 2: 23:30

He says you always knew what he meant, even when you were boys together. There was never any misunderstanding between you, and there should not be any now. Do you understand?

Speaker 1: 23:41

She turned her face, eyes still closed, toward him. Yes, I understand what you've said, he added quickly. But I don't understand where the information came from. We are not asking for understanding, Mr. Smith, the Reverend Dille said. Until we have the answers, all we ask is an open mind. The Nature you have. I promise you. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 24:04

Thank you. He's going away now. He's going out the door. Now he is gone. She was silent for a few seconds. There is movement at the door again. This time it's a lady. A very old lady who walks with a cane.

Speaker 1: 24:22

With a cane? The minister repeated, looking quickly at the faces in the circle for some sort of recognition.

Speaker 2: 24:28

Yes, she has a cane. She had two canes. One of wood, and the other was silver overlay. She never liked the silver one, but would carry it sometimes when she went calling on friends if the family insisted. The mayor looked at his wife.

Speaker 1: 24:43

Her eyes were large. She was about to say something, but he shook his head. Does anyone recognize this lady? The minister asked. Again, the mayor and his wife exchanged glances.

Speaker 2: 24:54

She tells me that Tad is there with her, and so are Samuel and Delbert, but she can't find David. She has looked for him, but she can't find him. There are some places that she's not permitted to go. Perhaps David is there.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Doesn't anyone here acknowledge this woman? The Reverend Dill looked at each face. If not, we shall have to send her back. Silence from everyone.

Speaker 2: 25:19

She's showing me a bean crock. A large brown bean pot. She says it doesn't matter anymore.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Again, the minister searched the faces in the circle. She seems to think she belongs here. Can't anyone identify her? Mr. Roth? Mrs. Seacrest? Both Asa and the mayor's wife shook their heads. Mary's eyes were tightly closed, her mouth pursed.

Speaker 2: 25:44

I'm trying to better understand what she is saying. It begins with the letter P. A strange word or difficult name. I can't seem.

Speaker 1: 26:01

Then her entire body shook. The sensation rippled through the hands of the others in the circle, and gasped as Mary's head dropped forward as if in a deep sleep. The Reverend Dille held his breath. Then she raised her head and turned toward the mayor's wife. The word is Punxutawney. Punxutawney, Pennsylvania? I guess maybe we won't just think of Groundhog Day when we hear that anymore. Can any of you picture one of your family members doing the same thing from the other side? It reminds me of when Jimmy Fallon played Nick Burns, the IT guy. Move! Wait until you see why this grandma is chiming into the seance. Next week, you get to hear how the seance ends. We will also hear from special guest Neal Gibbons. He is a paranormal researcher in Chicago, Illinois. And last year, he held a seance in the Roff home that was turned into a documentary called The Seance. It isn't available yet, but it's been submitted to film festivals, and I don't know about you, but I cannot wait to see it. I will keep you posted when it comes out. Neal will be telling us about his experience and more next week, right here. You do not want to miss it. Have I mentioned that I stayed in the Roff house this past October? Head over to our Patreon page to see some pictures and videos. You'll also find a bonus porch light segment from Thanksgiving Day last week about the brown mountain lights. Now, join me under the porch light, the place where memories meet the present and voices from the past still linger in the dark. Tonight, we listen not to the pages from a book, but to the people who have felt the unexplained and found the courage to share it. Welcome to Porchlight Whispers. This week, we're heading back into the mountains of North Carolina, where old stories settle deep and a different set of lights in the sky refuses to be explained. Last week, you heard about the Brown Mountain lights from Sally, but this week her brother Vann takes the porchlight seat. He and some college buddies went searching for the Ahoskie lights one night, and what he saw has stayed with him ever since.

Speaker 2: 28:29

Okay, so you want to tell me about some other lights, the Ahoskie lights.

unknown: 28:34

Yeah, the Ahoski lights are in Ahoskie, North Carolina, which is north of Greenville, North Carolina, and south east of uh Murfreesboro. Murfreesboro is where I went to college at Chowan. Um we'd heard about him, and this was in 1990. So many, many years ago. We gotta find some cards. Yeah. And uh we there was nothing to do at Chowan University. Uh you could go to the sawmill, and I could call Rhonda from a payphone, and that was about it. Um so was down one night, and if you didn't go to Green Boys, there was some guys and said, let's go see the lights at Ahoskie. So I'd be in the one that would want to drive, drive myself to be safe. We took uh truck, had an 84 model uh Chevrolet down there. It's actually my dad's truck at the time, and loaded up. Me and Norman Young in the front seat, and then we had uh six, seven guys in the back. You went to Ahoskie to the train track, and uh you would uh you got out there at a place and we walked on the train track. Can't remember north, south, east, or west on the way that it ran, but we walked what I would call up, but right-handed from where we parked, and walked the train track for a while and so there was nine of us somewhere thereabouts, eight, nine. And uh me and the Norman was probably the only two that was not drinking, and we were the only two that seen the lights. The other guys had gone back, but as we walked along the train track, the light appeared out in front of us and was a hovering same color light as the brown mountain heights, but this one was brighter and it traveled in the direction of the office, and me and Norman both we stayed put, and the light got closer and closer and closer, and then when you thought that it was gonna run into you that you was gonna actually get a really close view of it, it was just gone, and we turned around and looked the direction that we came from, and there it went for a short distance, and then we didn't see it no more. The experience with it is it it had the effect that it went through us without us seeing it. But it was about as big around as uh volleyball, something the size of a volleyball, but the brightness was not for it would be, it didn't hurt your eyes to look at it. Same way with the Brown Mountain lights, it doesn't alert your eyes, it doesn't hurt your eyes to look at it like if you was looking at a train coming at you, or a car coming at you. It's a a dull same as the brown mountain lights, a dull tan light.

Speaker 2: 32:22

Did you feel anything when it went through you?

unknown: 32:26

No.

Speaker 2: 32:26

No coldness or anything?

unknown: 32:29

No, it was creepy because I mean it happened fast, but it was creepy, but I can't remember being scared or anything. It's just like what just happened. That was weird. I guess would be an explanation.

Speaker 1: 32:49

Thank you so much to Vann and Sally for taking time out on Thanksgiving to capture this incredible story. I laughed imagining seven guys in the back of a truck heading to the site and was otherwise on the edge of my seat the whole time. If you want to hear even more about the Brown Mountain Lights, straight from Van and his dad and cousin, we're sharing exclusive recordings over on Patreon. The link is in the show notes. Until next time. That was this week's edition of Porchlight Whispers. Do you have an experience of your own to tell? We want to hear your stories. Share your experience and let your small town whispers become part of ours. And with that, the porchlight dims, but the whispers stay with us. Join us again next time when another voice steps into the light.