Ghost Horse

A girl wakes after five silent days with no memory and no weakness. A minister sits in her parlor and suggests a possibility more human than demonic: a spirit not gone far enough. When he conducts an experiment successfully right there in the home, the room shifts from fear to curiosity. That small win for Mary becomes a doorway to bigger questions about belief, evidence, and the strange ways grief and love ripple through our lives.

We open up the conversation between faith and phenomena, tracing how scripture, spiritualism, and everyday skepticism can coexist without shouting each other down. Then we carry that spirit of inquiry onto the open air of legend: the Brown Mountain Lights in North Carolina, glowing orbs reported for more than a century that seem to walk the ridges with intention, unfazed by floods or official explanations. 

Brown Mountain Light song:

https://youtu.be/MlbQ1zsE2nQ?si=qvXQncXVSFPoAd5N

We compare those sightings to the Vander Light along the rails near Fayetteville, a lonely lantern said to pace the tracks after a fatal fall, appearing and dissolving as if still waiting for a late train that never comes.

What connects Watseka’s parlor, a mountain overlook, and a quiet stretch of track is the same motif: a lantern moving through the dark. Lanterns are more than light; they’re the outline of a person’s will, a portable circle that makes room for courage. We explore natural theories—from headlights to mirages to stressed rock—alongside the stories locals keep telling, and we hold space for the possibility that meaning and mechanism both matter. If you’ve ever felt watched over, or watched by, a small light in a big night, you’ll feel at home here. Press play, then tell us what you’ve seen, what you believe, and what still keeps you looking up.

If this story resonated, follow the show, leave a review, and share it with a friend who loves folklore, true paranormal tales, and the mysteries that walk just ahead of us.

Chapters

• 0:11 Personal Ties To Watseeka
• 1:37 Mary’s Five Days And Recovery
• 2:41 Reverend Dill Enters The Story
• 4:36 Spirits, Bible, And Belief
• 9:18 Do Spirits Linger On Earth
• 12:08 Abilities Beyond The Normal
• 14:54 The White Horse Experiment
• 17:55 Porch Light Whispers Begins
• 19:58 The Brown Mountain Lights Legend
• 22:44 The Vander Light Of North Carolina
• 24:41 Why Lantern Stories Endure

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Small Town Whispers, where history, folklore, and the paranormal collide. I'm Bethany Yucuis Borden, and I lived in Watseka, Illinois from 1988 to 1999. For over a decade, I walked the same streets, saw the same houses, and even had friends connected to the story we're about to dive into. This isn't just history for me, it's personal. The payoff is gonna be good, I promise. Now there's a lot to cover today, so let's get right back into the story. Mary lay unconscious for five days. Five long days without food, water, or even a stir. And yet, when she finally opened her eyes, there wasn't a trace of weakness. Everyone in the Roff household was stunned. After losing so much blood and falling into that strange, violent trance, how could she just be back to normal? Mary remembered nothing. Not the episode, not the things she'd said, not the fury that had taken hold of her. Asa told her what he could, even admitted he'd slapped her in desperation, but he left out the words that she had said to her mother. He couldn't bring himself to repeat them. With no better ideas, Dr. Fowler returned day after day with his jar of leeches all the way into mid-August. No one else had any answers. And in the middle of all this, Anne lost the baby. The entire family whispered that it must have been caused by Mary's episode, though no one dared say it above a hush. Around this time, Reverend John Barre Dille, the new Methodist minister in Watseeka, came calling. His brother had been sending him writings about the rise of spiritualism back east. Strange happenings, curious trances, and unexplained transformations. What he read looked uncomfortably similar to what was happening inside the Roth home. And that brings us back to Watseka: America's Most Extraordinary Case of Possession and Exorcism, page 57, where Reverend Dille steps into the parlor to meet Anne and Mary, and unknowingly walks into a moment that would change the course of this story forever. Mary, as your pastor I have an obligation to try and help you as much as I can, and as much as the Lord wishes you to be helped. What you experienced out there with the knife, and afterward with your rescuers, others have experienced before you. He paused to let his words sink in. Others? Anne asked. What others? Here in Watseka? He could hear the relief in her voice. No, not in Watseka, but in other places around the country. It seems that whatever it was that took a hold of Mary has taken a hold of others. Anne pulled back, watching him suspiciously. These others went through the same type of physical and mental anguish, and in almost every case they, like Mary, could not recall what had taken place. He looked at Mary and then at her mother. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: 4:36

Hmm. I think so.

Speaker 1: 4:38

I am saying that there seems to be an increasing amount of evidence that something outside ourselves can come in and take ourselves over, to possess us, if you will. Since this was the first conversation she had ever had with this new minister, Anne advanced cautiously. My husband and I have heard something of this, Reverend Dille, from Mr. Roff's business partner, Mr. Matzenbaugh. The minister nodded his head. Josiah Matzenbaugh, yes. I have met him on occasion, but we have never discussed this subject. He smiled and adjusted the points on his waistcoat. This is not a subject most ministers do discuss. Frankly, Reverend Dille, said Anne, I am surprised that you, a member of the clergy, would be interested in these these spirits if that is what they really are. On the contrary, misses Roff, as a member of the clergy, I should be most interested in spirits and everything they are capable of doing. After all, I preach, and I'm sure you believe in the Holy Trinity, the Father and the Son, and the Holy Ghost? Anne raised her hand to her mouth, and Mary opened her eyes wide. I never thought of it that way, she said. The Holy Ghost. The Reverend smiled, happy that he was reaching them. Indeed, the Bible is full of references to ghosts, spirits, possessions, all sorts of things that we don't believe today. But we believe in the words of the Bible, Reverend Dille, said Anne. Our family often reads the Bible together. I'm not saying you don't believe in the words of the good book, misses Roff. Please don't misunderstand me. What I am saying is that there is biblical reference for what might have happened to Mary. I say might, of course, because I don't fully understand what the entire circumstances were.

Speaker 2: 6:30

I thought everyone in town knew, Mary said bitterly.

Speaker 1: 6:34

Everyone in town knows the external appearances of your incident, he said, smiling at her. But few can even guess at the internal reasons for what happened. Anne was still not sure of her footing with this man. Then it is your contention, Reverend Dille, that Mary was possessed by the devil? He turned quickly to her and shook the index finger of his right hand. Oh no, he said, still shaking his finger. I never said I thought it was the devil. On the contrary, my dear Mrs. Roff, I don't believe it has anything to do with the devil. Just the opposite. No, not the devil. You think it was an angel? Mary asked, her voice rising.

Speaker 2: 7:16

Do you think an angel would have done the things I did or said the things I said?

Speaker 1: 7:23

His finger wagged in her direction now. Not an angel. A spirit, the spirit of someone who has gone before us and yet hasn't gone far enough. But Anne put in, we all go to either heaven or hell when we die. How could a spirit not have gone far enough as you call it? Granted that we all go to either heaven or hell. It seems, however, that some spirits don't go directly to heaven or hell. It seems that some stay here on earth after they die. Anne looked at him coldly. I don't recall seeing that in the Bible. Oh yes, it's in the Bible. I looked it up. He hurried on before they could ask him to quote chapter and verse. It appears that some spirits don't know they are dead and stay here on earth. I have heard tell of the ghosts of our brave boys killed at Gettysburg being seen by visitors to the site. It is said that they are looking for their units and can't understand what has happened to them. He shook his head. Most sad. Mary shook her head. Indeed. But why does God in all his mercy permit this, Reverend Dill? Anne asked. He shrugged his shoulders. Who knows why the Almighty does what he does? And who are we to question his judgments? Mary and Anne lowered their eyes. God was not to be questioned, of course. There are many things on earth that man cannot explain. Possibly man should not know about them, Anne added. Possibly. But when man does know about them, he must examine them and try to discover how they influence his life and thought. How long, Reverend Dille? Anne began. And I'll admit that here in Watseeka we are sometimes unaware of progress being made in other places. But how long has the Methodist Church believed in this spiritualism? Mrs. Roff, while the Methodist Church does not believe in spiritualism, that does not mean that I, as an individual, do not believe in spirits. There is a difference between spirits and spiritualism. One is a religion, the other is our immortal soul, and I believe in our immortal soul. Indeed I do. Mary had been listening and evaluating.

Speaker 2: 9:39

Reverend Dille, why would a spirit want to do those things to me?

Speaker 1: 9:44

Why me? I cannot answer that, my dear. I don't know just as I don't know why a spirit stays on the earth when it could just as well be in heaven.

Speaker 2: 9:53

Maybe the ones who are here don't want to go to hell.

Speaker 1: 9:58

Possibly. But quite often in some seances held in the East and in England, spirits of people who were quite honest and quite honorable have reappeared and spoken to entire groups of people, and, he added, hoping to convince them, been recognized by their friends and loved ones. Recognized? Anne said rather loudly. You mean people saw their faces and recognized them from their faces? He sat back comfortably on the sofa now. Exactly. Saw their faces, heard their voices, and received answers to questions that no one but the deceased spirit could have known. Really, it has all been most remarkable. Have you ever seen a ghost? No, not personally, nor have I attended any of the seance meetings. I've not had the opportunity as yet. I have read a great deal on the matter, and have given it much thought. I try, he said, brushing at a bit of lint on his trouser leg, to be well read and as scientific as I can be. As a minister, I must know what is happening everywhere. The two women nodded in agreement. Mary had another question.

Speaker 2: 11:08

If this is a spirit that enters my body, then how do I get rid of him?

Speaker 1: 11:14

Is there anything I can do to make him go away? He shook his head. I don't think so, he said. It seems that they come and go as they please. It is true that at a seance they are called into the room, but no amount of pleading will make them go away before they choose to go, or to stay either, for that matter. Why then? asked Anne, warming up to the man and the subject. Does this spirit affect Mary's physical body? Like making her unconscious for days at a time, or giving her such strength that five men are unable to contain her. He shook his head again. I don't know. I wish I did, but I am a healer of the soul and not a healer of the body. Those are questions that only a medical doctor can answer.

Speaker 2: 11:59

Are these ghosts these spirits that take control of me? Are they always around me or do they come and go? Come and go from where? Her mother asked. I don't know. Just come and go from wherever they live.

Speaker 1: 12:16

They don't live anywhere, Mary, said her mother. They're dead.

Speaker 2: 12:20

I know that. That's not what I was asking. I was asking if they are always here, you know, in the air and invisible.

Speaker 1: 12:30

I suppose they are, said the Reverend. If they don't go anywhere, then they must stay right here. There may even be some of them in the room with us right now. At this, Anne and Mary looked quickly around them. I don't mean to startle you, he said, but dozens of them may be listening and watching right now. Watching? Do you mean that even when I go to the She stopped short. It was not polite to mention the word bathroom in public, especially to the minister.

Speaker 2: 12:59

When I'm getting dressed?

Speaker 1: 13:02

He nodded. Oh how embarrassing. I don't think we can do anything that would embarrass them, he laughed. Not to them. To me. At this, Anne began to laugh with the minister, and Mary, seeing the humor of it, laughed with them. Anne was glad. It had been the first time her daughter had laughed since the accident. There is another interesting phenomenon that often accompanies these spirit possessions, said Reverend Il. Often the person who experiences these things takes on abilities that are not common, like knowing things in advance, or being able to read things through a sealed envelope. Through a sealed envelope? Mary doubted that. Yes, it is said that these people acquire special abilities that cannot be explained by natural causes, like knowing when someone is about to die, or seeing things as they happen a great distance away. With a telescope, Anne said. No, with their minds. Some people are actually able to tell what is happening at a distance where their eyes cannot see.

Speaker 2: 14:11

That would be fun. That way I could see what the boys were doing and catch them at it.

Speaker 1: 14:18

Very practical, laughed Anne. Do you want to try it? Me? Uh no? He nodded. Why not? Well, I don't think I could.

Speaker 2: 14:31

You never know till you try. But I'm sure I it all sounds so silly. Do you really think I could do it? See what was happening somewhere else? Like in another room?

Speaker 1: 14:44

Would you like to try? She looked at her mother, and Anne nodded her head. Yes, I'll try it with you. How does it work? You go into another room, and I'll do something in this room. Then when I call you back, you tell me what you think I was doing. Reverend Dille was already off the sofa and pacing the floor. He was about to begin his scientific investigation at last. Go upstairs or wherever you choose, and I'll do something here in the parlor. You try to see me. It's important that you try to actually see me. Don't think of anything at all. Just pay attention, close your eyes, and listen to whatever images come into your mind. Like a photograph? Yes, exactly. Pretend that your mind is taking a photographic image of me. Then when I call you, come back into the room and tell me what developed on your camera plate. Mary got up and walked quickly from the room. Uncle in the kitchen. The excitement added a little spring to her step, and Anne smiled at the minister in thanks. Reverend Dille closed the double parlor doors. He put his finger up against his lips as a sign that Anne was to make no noise. He looked around the room for a moment, and then walked toward a round lace topped table near the casement windows. There was a porcelain figurine of George Washington astride a horse on the table. The general held his hat in his hand, and one of the horse's hooves was raised. Part of the general's uniform had been painted, but most of the figurine was left in natural white. He smiled at Anne as she watched him with both amusement and curiosity, as he took the figurine and carried it across the room, and placed it on the fireplace mantle. Then he picked it up again, walked with it extended in his hands back to the table, and set it down. He picked it up again, walked across to the fireplace, then returned it to the table. He did this several times, staring at the figurine all the while. Then he opened the sliding doors, shouted to Mary that she could come back, and hurried to his seat on the sofa. She entered the room, a frown on her face. What's the matter? asked Anne. It didn't work. What didn't work?

Speaker 2: 17:02

The Reverend wanted to know. The experiment. The photograph I got was so silly. Silly? He asked. In what way? It couldn't have been right. I didn't have an impression of anything in the room. Did you see me? He asked, hoping for a positive answer. No.

Speaker 1: 17:21

I didn't see anybody. I didn't even see this room. She was obviously disappointed. What did you see, dear? Anne asked.

Speaker 2: 17:30

Reverend Dille asked me to see him doing something, and all I could imagine was a white horse running back and forth across a field. Every time I tried to push that horse out of my mind, it would come back again.

Speaker 1: 17:43

We don't own a white horse. The Reverend jumped off the sofa. Mary, do you know what you've done? You made the experiment work. You did it. We've been on quite a journey with the Roth family so far. And after everything we've heard in the last few excerpts, wasn't it a blessing to hear Mary succeed at something? To hear her laugh? For once, the thing that set her apart wasn't a burden or a curse hovering over her family. It was a gift. Or at least a moment of light in a life that's held so much shadow. It makes you wonder: do you think people can truly have psychic abilities? I do. I've never doubted that some folks have an extra sense. Something that lets them tune into frequencies the rest of us miss. That's one of the reasons I love Jim Harold's campfire so much. Ordinary people call in with extraordinary stories, and every time I'm struck by the same thought, why would someone risk their credibility, their reputation, just to tell a lie that strange? And with each story, each whisper from someone else's life, maybe our own minds open just a little wider to what might be possible.

Speaker 3: 19:09

Now, join me under the porch light, the place where memories meet the present and voices from the past still linger in the dark. Tonight we listen not to the pages from a book, but to the people who have felt the unexplained and found the courage to share it. Welcome to Porch Light Whispers.

Speaker 1: 19:40

Way up unwalling the mountain, where the bear and the cataman tree. When they count on the floods for the night, with the star screw on the old canyon room, I would watch for the brown mountain light. You'll have to hear the rest of the song for yourself, because I won't do it justice. But I highly recommend checking out the link in the show notes or looking it up at your own convenience. I heard about this song from a good friend of mine, Sally, who grew up in western North Carolina. Some of her family still lives there. She's an avid skier, a wonderful piano teacher, and one of the most animated storytellers you'll ever meet. We were having brunch recently when she leaned across the table and asked, Are you looking for more stories? I mean, of course I am. Then she said, Have you ever heard of the Brown Mountain Lights? Instant hook. Especially because she hadn't heard the Lantern Slane story yet from earlier episodes. I asked her to keep going, and she told me that where she grew up, there's an old legend involving a Native American man, a local woman, and a mysterious light that still appears from certain lookouts today. She's gone to see it. No luck. But her brother, he has seen it. For over a century, likely much longer, strange lights have been reported drifting above Brown Mountain. One of the best viewing points is near the 20-mile marker on Highway 181. The story people tell goes like this. Long ago, a Native American warrior set out into the mountains with a lantern to search for his lost love after a terrible battle. He never returned, but some say his lantern did. Travelers claim the lights are the flicker of that eternal search, glowing, vanishing, and reappearing as though someone is walking a ridge with purpose. The first big wave of attention came in the early 1900s. In 1913, the Charlotte Observer ran a story about a mysterious light that had been appearing nightly for more than two years. Investigators were baffled. Locals weren't impressed by explanations like lanterns, trains, or moonlight reflections. Then came the flood of 1916. Every train line shut down. The lights kept appearing. Reports continued until North Carolina senators requested a formal investigation. The official explanation blamed brush fires and headlights. But people still see something today. People who know the land. People not easily fooled. And Brown Mountain isn't the only ghost light in North Carolina. Closer to where I live now, near Fayetteville, there's a lesser-known wandering lantern, the Vander Light. This one begins with Archer Matthews, a ticket master at the depot between Vander and Steadman in the 1800s. One night, the train was running late. Matthews walked the tracks with his lantern, searching through the quiet, damp dark. Nothing came. On his way back, he slipped on the steps, fell backwards, and struck his head on the rail, unconscious as the late train finally roared through the night. The engineer saw the lantern, but not Matthews. He didn't survive. Soon after, people began seeing a solitary light walking the railroad at night. Sometimes it drifts right toward you and disappears just before reaching your feet, only to reappear behind you, continuing its lonely march down the track, as if still searching for that overdue train. What's strange is how often these stories, across states, decades, cultures, all involve a lantern, a searching light, a wandering soul, a glow moving with intention. From Brown Mountain's eternal love story to Vander's lost ticketmaster to our own let's see the legend of Lantern's lane. It's always a lone light cutting through the dark, as if someone is still walking just ahead of us. Maybe that's why these stories last. Lanterns weren't just light sources, they were extensions of the person carrying them. And sometimes it seems the lantern keeps searching long after the person is gone. I can't wait to check out both of these locations for myself, and we'll absolutely be reporting back. If you have seen the Brown Mountain light, the Vander light, or any ghostly glow from your own hometown, send your stories to Forch LightWhispers at gmail.com or message us on the Small Town Whispers Facebook page. And hey, if your family swapped spooky hometown tales over Thanksgiving dinner, we definitely want to hear those too. We'll be hearing more from Sally's family soon. Until next time.

Speaker 3: 25:18

That was this week's edition of Porchlight Whispers. Do you have an experience of your own to tell? We want to hear your stories. Share your experience and let your small town whispers become part of ours.

Speaker 1: 25:35

And with that, the porch light dims, but the whispers stay with us. Join us again next time when another voice steps into the light.